Orcworm's SMP Server

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+18

asacavanagh

paradox74

gamemaster1494

sieve

Monstaboi

lolyounoob1

Pete

DoughnutSpanker

uberblake

The_Music_Man

GaMerG77

Grintendo

Ciphon

FillerB

Orcworm

PureCraft

patrickfreed

Yarwood

22 posters

Go to page : 1, 2

Removal of War plugin

Poll

Should we remove the war plugin?

Yes: [ 18 ]; [49%]

No: [ 13 ]; [35%]

Abstain: [ 6 ]; [16%]

Total Votes: 37
Poll closed

Yarwood: In-Game Staff; Posts : 2379
Join date : 2010-12-30

Post n°1

Removal of War plugin

by Yarwood 2011-08-12, 05:05

Basically, now that we have the :1 (Chaos server), there isn't much point for a war plugin.

Should we remove the plugin and cut down on server save-times/restarts/lag ?

Edit\\FillerB:
Please _fully_ read the topic and the arguments for/against before casting your vote. Vote Cancelling is possible incase you change your mind.

patrickfreed

patrickfreed: Forum Staff; Posts : 2508
Join date : 2011-01-13
Age : 27
Location : Washington DC, United States

Post n°2

Re: Removal of War plugin

by patrickfreed 2011-08-12, 05:06

Orc told me that plugin has like 4gb of data. Why it takes 4 gb to store some coordinates and scores is beyond me. Razz

Razz

PureCraft: Posts : 3781
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Age : 29
Location : Germany

Post n°3

Re: Removal of War plugin

by PureCraft 2011-08-12, 05:07

4gb? I could have soo much porn on that space? remove it!

Orcworm: Owner; Posts : 5936
Join date : 2010-10-31
Age : 29
Location : England

Post n°4

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Orcworm 2011-08-12, 05:11

patrickfreed wrote:Orc told me that plugin has like 4gb of data. Why it takes 4 gb to store some coordinates and scores is beyond me.

The areas re-generate when a round ends, the chunks don't recover out of thin air.

FillerB: So long and thanks for all the fish!; Posts : 4066
Join date : 2011-01-30
Age : 35
Location : Netherlands

Post n°5

Re: Removal of War plugin

by FillerB 2011-08-12, 05:15

Storage space is a dime a dozen so removing it because isn't really a compelling reason to remove. What IS a compelling reason is the toll it takes on server startup-time. Which is (IIRC from the other topic) something on the scale of 20 seconds. That is a bit silly if noone uses it won't you say? Also LOLLAG.

(Feel free to edit this post if I'm wrong with that amount)

Ciphon: Posts : 1637
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Age : 27
Location : 156,68,1261

Post n°6

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Ciphon 2011-08-12, 05:15

I personally know that a lot of people (such as myself enjoy the war plugin, and as Grintendo said, a lot of work in making maps for it has been done, t would be sad to remove it now

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°7

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-12, 05:18

It takes hardly any more time to reset, and myself, jarvisd, and Zz_For_Dannnnn with the help of numerous others, spent hours creating our map alone. And there's a total of 4 (maybe 5) maps that have been created.

Not to mention, this PVP experience that war gives, is completely different from the Chaos server.

One being, you don't risk loosing anything of value, apart from self respect.

FillerB: So long and thanks for all the fish!; Posts : 4066
Join date : 2011-01-30
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Location : Netherlands

Post n°8

Re: Removal of War plugin

by FillerB 2011-08-12, 05:22

Orc do you have some statistics on how much War actually adds? That is going to be what this all boils down to. Yes, a ton of people spend a ton of time on it but would you rather have a snappy server or a laggy server with redundant features?

GaMerG77: Donator; Posts : 2016
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Age : 24
Location : California

Post n°9

Re: Removal of War plugin

by GaMerG77 2011-08-12, 05:24

Grintendo, it does cause huge lag, and it seems that everyone dies from about 5-10 blocks and sometimes you can go from 10 hearts to a empty 0 in a second with no interval.

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°10

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-12, 05:25

Orcworm wrote:As Ciphon said, the secondary server takes around 3 seconds to complete a reboot cycle, the main server takes 15-20. The main culprit is the war plugin, so if you want shorter reboots...

Holy shit, remove it now? I'm defending everyone who plays, enjoys and has made a war-ground for this plugin. Yes, i have a strong view that it should stay.

The_Music_Man

The_Music_Man: Posts : 739
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Post n°11

Re: Removal of War plugin

by The_Music_Man 2011-08-12, 05:29

Hmmm, excuse me if this is a stupid suggestion, but why not make a third server literraly JUST for plugins that gice the main server lag, doesn't have to do much, just have War Plugin and be playable, this would also alow for more war arens and st00f.

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°12

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-12, 05:32

The problem is we have too many war arenas. We were supposed to have one, and then change it every few weeks, so it was in constant use. More hubs = less on each map.

Why even remove this if it's only making 15 seconds worth of damage? That's barely hurting anyone and SOME people thoroughly enjoy it.

FillerB: So long and thanks for all the fish!; Posts : 4066
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Age : 35
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Post n°13

Re: Removal of War plugin

by FillerB 2011-08-12, 05:45

Look just calm down until we can get some solid statistics. But keeping it around, for example, for 5 people who _actively_ use it while it takes a chunk out of performance is silly. While if there are 15 people who regularly play while it takes just a teensy tiny bit out of our available resources...

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°14

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-12, 05:47

It's not in heavy use at the moment, but hey, the server's not in heavy use. This isn't the time to remove things due to them not being used. Everyone's on vacation, it's not the time to remove it on judgement of use. If it causes a huge lag, then that'd be a valid argument.

Orcworm: Owner; Posts : 5936
Join date : 2010-10-31
Age : 29
Location : England

Post n°15

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Orcworm 2011-08-12, 05:48

Personally I think we should remove a lot of plugins currently on the main server. Sure, you won't be able to do as many things - but have you seen just how different it is delay wise on the :1 server? Main server sees 12 ticks after an hour, chaos doesn't drop below 19 on a 5 hour restart timer.

uberblake: Posts : 378
Join date : 2011-04-22
Age : 29
Location : Panau Island

Post n°16

Re: Removal of War plugin

by uberblake 2011-08-12, 06:24

I think we should keep it. Not only because I made an arena, but it's also for a not as hardcore way to pvp. Usually if you want to play, people will play with you, and actually enjoy it. The reward system is great, so there's actually a gain to playing it. I don't see a little bit of lag as a valid reason to remove it, because it doesnt cause HUGE lag. As Grint said, many people are on vacation now (like me) so it isn't getting much use now.

I really think it's an absurd idea to remove this wonderful plugin, because it actually adds a big thing to do on the main server. It should probably be advertised more, because a lot more people will probably start using it, making it famous and will never be removed!

DoughnutSpanker

DoughnutSpanker: Donator; Posts : 527
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Post n°17

Re: Removal of War plugin

by DoughnutSpanker 2011-08-12, 07:55

I don't think we need to. The lag it causes is minimal to me, and I could care less about quicker restarts. I almost NEVER use it, but the few times I have, it was always a 2v2. We need more people to play it. I think we should only have 1 map to maximize playing on that map. I also agree with orc, and we should probably trim down on the excess plugins.

uberblake: Posts : 378
Join date : 2011-04-22
Age : 29
Location : Panau Island

Post n°18

Re: Removal of War plugin

by uberblake 2011-08-12, 07:58

Each major city should have a warhub, New Orcshire can have "war", Acheron can have jungle/ nether, Abydos can have desert...
Would this reduce lag?

DoughnutSpanker

DoughnutSpanker: Donator; Posts : 527
Join date : 2011-01-31
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Post n°19

Re: Removal of War plugin

by DoughnutSpanker 2011-08-12, 08:00

uberblake wrote:Each major city should have a warhub, New Orcshire can have "war", Acheron can have jungle/ nether, Abydos can have desert...

No, we don't need that many! I rarely see anyone on one of them, let alone both. To reduce lag a bit and make everyone happy we should remove all the zones except the first one, or whatever they were originally going to do.

Pete: Posts : 3194
Join date : 2010-12-22
Age : 29
Location : Santiago, Chile

Post n°20

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Pete 2011-08-12, 08:04

Just a note, since someone said something about having a server just for certain mods... Could we have a small other server (not right now, but at some point) that allows the couple cool client-side mods around? IDK, but there was one about guns, and another about planes or something... It might be cool to have one of those when/if we start getting some more players again...

uberblake: Posts : 378
Join date : 2011-04-22
Age : 29
Location : Panau Island

Post n°21

Re: Removal of War plugin

by uberblake 2011-08-12, 08:08

But everyone loves jungle D:
Having 2 warzones would have nice diversity and you wouldnt just play on one the whole time. Each one has different perks, and the rotation thing was a good idea, but never got used. Maybe there's a way to delete the warhub and just tell people to type /warzone ____ .
@Pete: I don't think that this mod would go well with a new server. It could be for cool mods, but not wars. Just think of joining a new server to play in a warzone...

Pete: Posts : 3194
Join date : 2010-12-22
Age : 29
Location : Santiago, Chile

Post n°22

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Pete 2011-08-12, 09:00

New server to play war with guns and transportation? Doesn't sound half bad IMO. >.>

uberblake: Posts : 378
Join date : 2011-04-22
Age : 29
Location : Panau Island

Post n°23

Re: Removal of War plugin

by uberblake 2011-08-12, 09:06

Pete wrote:New server to play war with guns and transportation? Doesn't sound half bad IMO. >.>

That would make the chaos server.....more chaotic. It could make faction wars more awesome. The chaos server could handle a tiny bit of lag.

Pete: Posts : 3194
Join date : 2010-12-22
Age : 29
Location : Santiago, Chile

Post n°24

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Pete 2011-08-12, 10:26

Oh no, I meant yet another server... I don't want guns in the chaos server. >.>

lolyounoob1

lolyounoob1: Posts : 232
Join date : 2011-02-27

Post n°25

Re: Removal of War plugin

by lolyounoob1 2011-08-12, 10:56

Pete wrote:Oh no, I meant yet another server... I don't want guns in the chaos server. >.>

I do :p

Monstaboi: Posts : 1432
Join date : 2011-02-02

Post n°26

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Monstaboi 2011-08-12, 12:54

Pete wrote:Oh no, I meant yet another server... I don't want guns in the chaos server. >.>

same here, first because im shitty with mods and second because the chaos server is great as is, i spend most of my time on it Very Happy

Very Happy

sieve: Posts : 1371
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Post n°27

Re: Removal of War plugin

by sieve 2011-08-12, 13:36

Pete wrote:another server

Removal of War plugin Xzibit-happy

Monstaboi: Posts : 1432
Join date : 2011-02-02

Post n°28

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Monstaboi 2011-08-12, 15:28

sieve wrote:

Pete wrote:another server

Removal of War plugin Tumblr10

Ciphon: Posts : 1637
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Post n°29

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Ciphon 2011-08-12, 16:04

monstaboi that .gif made me laugh so much, idk why either lol

gamemaster1494

gamemaster1494: In-Game Staff; Posts : 442
Join date : 2011-01-03
Age : 30

Post n°30

Re: Removal of War plugin

by gamemaster1494 2011-08-13, 01:26

I say leave it. The lag isn't to bad on the server. With a tops of 20 players, it isn't doing bad.

paradox74: Posts : 592
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Location : h3ll

Post n°31

Re: Removal of War plugin

by paradox74 2011-08-13, 04:01

I personally love war hub. It is the only way to get a balanced battle. Also I have come across little lag since warhub. If you do have lag change some settings. Add a layer of fog, go back to the crappy lighting, do something. notch made it like that so you could.

FillerB: So long and thanks for all the fish!; Posts : 4066
Join date : 2011-01-30
Age : 35
Location : Netherlands

Post n°32

Re: Removal of War plugin

by FillerB 2011-08-13, 04:14

You people are thinking about client-side lag, we're talking about server-side "lag".

(Yes, I know. Bear with me)

paradox74: Posts : 592
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Location : h3ll

Post n°33

Re: Removal of War plugin

by paradox74 2011-08-13, 07:20

Yes I suppose you are correct however I still have very little lag. Don't know why I have so little lag. And I still love warhub.

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°34

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-13, 08:53

Turning off smooth lighting reduces lag a hella' lot btw folks.

asacavanagh

asacavanagh: Posts : 244
Join date : 2010-12-26
Age : 31
Location : Sydney, Australia

Post n°35

Re: Removal of War plugin

by asacavanagh 2011-08-14, 17:40

Uh.. Probably necro posting since I haven't read past the first page... But, being in Australia I already have a higher ping to the server, however, when someone enters the warzone or a round resets, the lag becomes unbareable and in somecases ends up with me being dropped from the server.

I'm not saying the who thing is bad, just having that sort of thing on a server with the traffic it gets wasn't such a good idea. So npw we have the chaos server, I agree it should deffinantly be taken out, if it hasn't already...

walla56: Posts : 44
Join date : 2011-01-07
Age : 27

Post n°36

Re: Removal of War plugin

by walla56 2011-08-14, 18:34

If we could get those weekly/bi-weekly war tournaments going on, then there would be more of a reason to keep it.

uberblake: Posts : 378
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Age : 29
Location : Panau Island

Post n°37

Re: Removal of War plugin

by uberblake 2011-08-14, 18:48

asacavanagh wrote: when someone enters the warzone or a round resets, the lag becomes unbareable and in somecases ends up with me being dropped from the server.

I'm not saying the who thing is bad, just having that sort of thing on a server with the traffic it gets wasn't such a good idea. So npw we have the chaos server, I agree it should deffinantly be taken out, if it hasn't already...

Usually this is only when someone is playing, and there is no reason for it to lag if someone joins. The lag that I've experienced is only for people playing war (except for saving the zone). To me, the chaos server isn't a replacement for war. War is more organized, and the chaos server takes some time to get ready for a bunch of small battles (like finding resources and getting your whole faction...). It is much easier to go into battle with the warzones than going into the chaos server.

I also timed the restart. It was around minute and a half after mc crashing right when I left the restart, resulting in a bad login, then coming on to be the 10th one on. To me, this isn't much lag. And if you're still having trouble...then do what grint said. I don't see a reason in destroying a fun plugin to reduce some lag that probably won't make a difference.

asacavanagh

asacavanagh: Posts : 244
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Age : 31
Location : Sydney, Australia

Post n°38

Re: Removal of War plugin

by asacavanagh 2011-08-14, 20:28

I'm not talking in battle, while the time taken for packets to get to and from the server makes war zone unplayable for me, I'm talking about the incovenience it causes to the rest of the map. It screws us around and has already resulted in my death once or twice. Hence I hate it with a passion and basicly yell at people who are in it at the time. The lag makes it plainly obvious that the zone(s) are in use

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°39

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-14, 21:21

It's far from a perfected plugin. But MineCraft isn't exactly perfect itself...

asacavanagh

asacavanagh: Posts : 244
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Post n°40

Re: Removal of War plugin

by asacavanagh 2011-08-14, 23:58

Exactly, so why keep something that is making it worse for everyone that doesn't want it? It's SMP for a reason. You fight to survive, you get bored, go look for someone and stab them in yhe back or something, don't cause the rest of the server greif by lagging it in war zone...

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°41

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-15, 00:15

You read me wrong asac, i'm 110% FOR the war plugin. You can't blame it for causing general lag, as there is no proof it causes player lag, and if you lag while playing it, don't play it.

Some people really enjoy it, and a lot of people put in a lot of effort for it. It doesn't harm you guys waiting an extra 30 seconds every 2 hours.

And you can't compare this to the Chaos server, not only are they on 2 different worlds, they're completely different.

Removing it is a stupid idea.

asacavanagh

asacavanagh: Posts : 244
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Age : 31
Location : Sydney, Australia

Post n°42

Re: Removal of War plugin

by asacavanagh 2011-08-15, 00:24

I know what you ment, I just went with it for what I ment because it made sense both ways.

Also, I can and do blame it for major lag spikes. Everytime I'm on, huge ass lag spike happens forst thing I ask is if someone is in war zone, 70-80% of the time someone says they are...

And again, your statement that it's not a perfect plugin and minecraft itself is not perfect comes into play. If minecraft sometimes struggles to keep itself running, huge pluggins like this one that create massive changes to maps etc aren't going to help the whole lag situation.. Someone said earlier it takes up 4GB of space.. Probably half of that is being reloaded every time the zone is activated then each map section has to be loaded, you can't say it doesn't have anything to do with lag, map edit take up a huge portion of your processing power, you notice a change no matter how good a processor or even computer in general you have, why? It's Java!

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°43

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-15, 00:42

asacavanagh wrote:Everytime I'm on, huge ass lag spike happens forst thing I ask is if someone is in war zone, 70-80% of the time someone says they are...

I think you've worded this wrong?

You're saying you always suffer from lag spikes. If that's true WarHub isn't necessarily the reason for this.

And secondly, why don't we go to my original plan when WarHub was added. 1 or 2 arenas, weekly competitions.

If that doesn't work, we can close down WarHub APART from the weekly competitions, so the competition will be even more popular.

Just because there's a problem with something, it doesn't necessarily need removal. It needs some TLC which will strongly help.

FillerB: So long and thanks for all the fish!; Posts : 4066
Join date : 2011-01-30
Age : 35
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Post n°44

Re: Removal of War plugin

by FillerB 2011-08-17, 20:41

Does WarHub cause client-side lag(spikes) when it's in use? Undoubtedly.
Does WarHub cause client-side lag(spikes) when NOT in use? Not directly.
Is WarHub one of those plugins that massively increase the tick count over time? Eeeeyup.

THAT is why so many are against it/claiming that it causes lag, Grin. It is a good plugin. It is a fun plugin. It is also a plugin that forces Orc to restart the server so often because elsewise the server would become too laggy to wipe your ass.

Could this be solved by disabling it except for weekly competitions/tournaments as per your suggestion? Most likely. Would weekly competitions/tournaments be fun? Definitively.
But be honest with yourself here and take a look at the apathetic bunch that runs around here. Do you honestly think that we COULD make competitions/tournaments a weekly thing? You yourself admitted that the ideas are there, but the drive to execute them isn't.

Do you think I am full of shit here? By all means proof me wrong and (succesfully) set up this weekly competition. I dare you.

skoglol: Posts : 349
Join date : 2011-02-23
Age : 34

Post n°45

Re: Removal of War plugin

by skoglol 2011-08-17, 20:56

Just put the arenas and stuff on the chaos server. You're supplied with the items for the fight anyway, and arranged tournaments can be arranged on chaos.

But that's just my opinion, as someone who barely use war.

FillerB: So long and thanks for all the fish!; Posts : 4066
Join date : 2011-01-30
Age : 35
Location : Netherlands

Post n°46

Re: Removal of War plugin

by FillerB 2011-08-17, 21:06

That would just be moving the tickcount-problem from one server to another.

Grintendo: In-Game Staff; Posts : 1942
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 93
Location : England

Post n°47

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Grintendo 2011-08-17, 21:47

It's pretty obvious a large percent of our population isn't here currently. That's why i'm saying let's not make drastic moves. I for one will be away for about 10 days soon, i'd hate to so my favorite plugin being removed while i was gone on vacation and couldn't defend it.

skoglol: Posts : 349
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Age : 34

Post n°48

Re: Removal of War plugin

by skoglol 2011-08-17, 22:10

FillerB wrote:That would just be moving the tickcount-problem from one server to another.

Fair enough, but you'd be distributing the total load better.
A lot of the people on the main server are mainly there to build, and giving them server performance drops for a pvp plugin is kind of backwards. As long as the portals for war is close to the starting point on the chaos server, people from the main server can go there with ease if they wish to use it. I think most of the people who answered "abstain" would be ok with this.

On the chaos server however, a large majority of people are interested in having pvp, and might be more content with having a slight performance drop as a result of more ways to do just that.

So all in all, possibly a bit fewer restarts on the main server and a few more on the chaos server. I don't see the issue, feel free to enlighten me Smile

Smile

EDIT:
And as a little thought experiment, on which server do you think this would see the most use?
If you were a player who mainly play on the chaos server, would you bother luring people over to the main server to use the war plugin?

The_Music_Man

The_Music_Man: Posts : 739
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Location : Everywhere.

Post n°49

Re: Removal of War plugin

by The_Music_Man 2011-08-18, 00:47

Can't beleive I missed this Shocked

Shocked

But my argument is that the Chaos server is one big warhub, but with potentially better loot.
And it's the ONE place where you can kill someone without them bitching about some kind of abuse or hacks.

Orcworm: Owner; Posts : 5936
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Location : England

Post n°50

Re: Removal of War plugin

by Orcworm 2011-08-18, 01:01

The_Music_Man wrote:
And it's the ONE place where you can kill someone without them bitching about some kind of abuse or hacks.

Actually everyone cries about abuse and hacks every time someone gets killed over there >_>.

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Re: Removal of War plugin

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