Economical development

Hello,
since I begun playing on this server, I'm liking the economical possibilities the best. Already since the beginning, my main task was acquiring ressources, and trade them with others.

I participate and observe the economy of Orcworm for more than two weeks now, and I think it would be nice, to have a topic about exactly that here on the forums.

I mainly want to post my thoughts and evaluation on the economy of Orcworm here.


In my postings I will mainly deal with the prices of valueable ressources - if they doesn't change and there's nothing new to add, I won't repeatedly go into it. If you have questions or want an estimation/opinion or something, you can ask.

So right now I want to begin on the basic development of prices for basic ressouces, and then go on to diamonds.
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The price for basic valueable ressources has incredibly decreased, especially for wood, but also similar ones like coal. The price for iron has stayed the same through the last days because it is already at its bottom. While it was valued 5 gil easily ~2 weeks before, the price decreased drastically and is now dealed, at usually 2-3/ingot.

I see the main cause of those price drops at auctions with very less or no starting bids, paired with more and more less demand for it. My prognosis is a stop of decrease (as it can hardly sink more) and a slight increase, giving it back its value.

The value of diamonds is continue to sink, just slower than before. While it was valued 60+ Gil easily ~2 weeks ago, diamond auctions were done more than average, with the result of some low outcomes, and therefore a demand for cheaper diamonds, which was followed by sellers. Diamonds were recently reaching the 50 Gil-Boarder after Gornemants efforts to keep the price high by outbiding everyone and buying all diamonds from shops selling diamonds <60. But the mass of demand and supply couldn't be satisfied through that, and that's why sellers continued selling diamonds cheaper than usual. GodJMike was the first one with a sign shop selling Diamonds for 50, and shortly afterwards, for only 48.

That definately influenced the bidding behavior at auctions even more, and people stopped paying more than 50 Gil per Diamond at all. A breakthrough of the 50-Gil Boarder is happening slowly, as people start to demand a price under 50 Gil for a diamond, and regularly auctions are ending with much less than that. But much sellers still demand 50 Gil/Diamond. It will take some time until the 50-Gil Boarder is completely broken, and the next boarder will be at 45 Gil.

My prognosis and expectation is clear: The diamond price will continue decreasing, and when the 45 Gil-Boarder is soon reached, it will stay for a bit there as well.

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I sell at 75, and won't change my prices. Hope that helps.

So the idea is to create a section of the forum to post current prices of items and such?

Yea, I guess I can take the blame for greatly decreasing diamond prices

patrickfreed wrote:I sell at 75, and won't change my prices. Hope that helps.

It's clear and known that sign-shops (usually) sell above the auction prices, especially at the spawn area, therefore, that doesn't reflect the actual value diamonds are traded for.

So the idea is to create a section of the forum to post current prices of items and such?

The idea is to share thoughts about the current economic situations - not just "l0l omg haha i just bought 3 diamonds for only 70 gil" but actually considering and obvserving the price development of valueable ressources and its causes, and comment on that - just look at how much I wrote.

Yea, I guess I can take the blame for greatly decreasing diamond prices

Those developments shouldn't implicitely considered negative. And It should be clear that specific persons aren't responsible for any of these developments, but the mass and especially the demand and supply is.

ahem.
Auctions don't define the market, nor do shops that are constantly out of stock. Diamonds still go for more than 80 gil in auctions, just because it happens while you're not there doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are still idiots to buy them even at 250 a piece. Fact is I still sell them for 75 every now and then, the location just isn't as good as it used to be.
At the start of the map I sold diamonds for less than 50 myself, 'lo and behold the price went back up, and it will once people will get bored of strip mining.

Iron for 2-3gil an ingot? please, I get more money killing mobs in the wild than mining for iron.

The problem is that people just don't get how piss easy it is to make money without even mining. :B

I have to disagree on that. Firstly, while it's definately true that many diamonds are beeing sold at sign shops - the masses of diamonds and main dealing is happening through auctions, and that's why I'm mainly dealing with that.
Sign shops are just reselling ressources by its basic value + an amount of profit. Auctions are defining the market, as it's the main trading place.

Diamonds still go for more than 80 gil in auctions

Diamonds still go for more than 80 gil as often as they go for less than 30 gil. There are always a few "extreme" deals, but what I'm dealing with is the average and to find a general scale.

Iron for 2-3gil an ingot?

That's how it is atm (actually since a few days already). But see my prognosis: I'm assuming the value of some basic ressources will grow a bit again and give it back its value.

When I sold diamonds for 250 a piece they still sold. I believe what's bringing the economy down is the newbies who join for a day, spend all their money in spawn shops and leave. Moneys too easy to come by now. Diamonds used to be worth 100 a piece not long ago. I still cant believe they're at 50.

Not really, auctions are mostly used by people that want to get rid of their stuff fast without the hassle of making a shop, and the best way to do so is to underprice. They are also used by newer players that have mostly no idea of the market prices and ask people that will make a false statement as to the market price to buy it as low as possible (see Muttley who's been saying that diamonds are worth 30-40 tops for weeks). All in all, auctions are too random and sporadic to set a stable price.
Auctions are mostly influenced by how many people are connected, shops are always there. If shops don't sell, they drop the prices. If shops sell too fast to restock, the price goes up, simple.
As to sign shops only reselling? I know I am with my diamonds, the others? not really.

That was very good estimate. All I can say is that in 1.3 the price of a diamond was 20-25gil soo...I'm waiting till it goes there lets just hope its not going to, and in a month or so we'll have 1.6 so there will be different prices all the less. All in all good post .

Baldymoint7 wrote:That was very good estimate. All I can say is that in 1.3 the price of a diamond was 20-25gil soo...I'm waiting till it goes there lets just hope its not going to, and in a month or so we'll have 1.6 so there will be different prices all the less. All in all good post .

It was stated more than a thousand times before and you still don't get it, really? Are you ****** ********* ******* *******?
the prices for diamond on the old map being so low had a reason: A shop restocked by an admin that sold diamonds for that price, those were not mined, just like the other things in the shop (sponges, chainmail armor etc...). You even got diamond blocks from mob drops!
Plus, in the old map you didn't get money for killing mobs until only a few weeks before reset, now you get 1 to 5 gil at least for each aggro mob and even for killing pigs sometimes.

Stop comparing prices to the old map for fuck's sake. -_-

At this point in the economy, money is almost a moot point. It is so easy to come by that anyone with an IQ over 60 can reasonably discover those quick methods of gaining gil -- either by selling items to specific buyers or other methods of acquiring money.

What would help things if there was an Admin Shop that didn't sell items to players, but always bought items instead -- it would create a fixed 'minimum' for a certain item. "Well, at the Admin Shop I can just sell a diamond for 100gil. Why should I bother selling it to you for less than that?" <--- as an example.

Obviously there would be discrepancies, people who sell them significantly higher or lower, though you have that now regardless.


However, in order to effectively implement this, there needs to be something worthwhile to spend the money on, as well. As it stands, the only recurring expenditure is plot rent, which is generally not all that much.

Pay for NPC's at X location would be one method ( see [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ) -- in which then the NPC's themselves charge to use whatever 'service' they offer, such as Blacksmiths to repair equipment and the like or a trader that can sell bread in a bakery, etc, etc.

Rare / Items that do not naturally appear on the map / Other Items that can only be bought at a certain place outside of spawn ( that are extremely highly priced to prevent the market getting flooded with them ).

Basically, what it amounts to, is people with money a reason to spend money and people without money to attempt to gain money.

Anyone have a hankering for 10,000 bread?

You cant regulate an economy like this, prices will continue to drop until they reach the old server norms, and they will do this for the same reason as the old server. any attempts to change the economy will result in failure and possibly angry members. The great thing about all money is that its only worth what the majority of the population decides its worth, trying to go against this rule is like trying to tell your government you refuse to use their currency. In the end you will lose and you will end up giving in and using the new normal prices.

Why do people cling to the old server norms, are you that much conservatives? Again, these were flawed because the market was filled with items gained by /give, and money was also much harder to come by.
Also, Economy 101: things are as valuable as people are willing to pay for them, if there are people that still buy it, prices go up. What, you think there's another reason why the gas prices still go up while the oil prices dump? Nope, people still buy it even though it's overpriced.

Saolite wrote:At this point in the economy, money is almost a moot point. It is so easy to come by that anyone with an IQ over 60 can reasonably discover those quick methods of gaining gil -- either by selling items to specific buyers or other methods of acquiring money.

Spoiler:

There used to be a buy price in admin shops, that's why nobody sold bread for less than 6gil a bread, because they might as well sell it to the shop. Problem was that bread is just way too easy to get massive amounts of. Why do you think the admin shops are "overpriced" btw? Because gil isn't worth anything. Look at your starting money, 500 gil! Who needs /kit when you can buy several sets of iron armor and tools, plus a few diamond tools, all that without playing more than 5 minutes?

It's hard to tell prices of things, there is no real set prices, just guidelines and everyone likes to interpret those lines their own way...

I can't see iron at 2-3gil ea...

@Gornemant: When the majority is selling ressources for about ~X on average, the value its currently traded for can be pretty clear defined. Concerning diamonds, everyone who is looking for them gets them at 50 Gil or cheaper, sign shops which are selling it with a (small) profit are irrelevant when it comes to their traded value.

SlaveofRH wrote:When I sold diamonds for 250 a piece they still sold.

Oh, that's how you got so rich. :p

I believe what's bringing the economy down is the newbies who join for a day, spend all their money in spawn shops and leave. Moneys too easy to come by now.

But that would mean the prices for ressources go up, as more money/easier money decreases their value. But it seems that the worth of money is growing, and the explanation for that is simple: By the time more and more ressources are available, and people want to pay less and less for them.

The current economic situation is nothing bad and shouldn't be regulated, I see it as a normal development in minecraft.