PvP rules of conduct?

Hi there

During the last days a small group of us have been out hunting people, seeking a new dimension of gameplay from minecraft. During this time we have killed some people, and saved ourselves from a lot of mining. This has of course caused a lot of ranting and threats in chat. Today we even got accused of exploiting! This is why I would like some thing clarified, to better defend my ass in chat

There are a few things flying through my mind regarding pvp, and the custom server tools we've got. I would very much like some clarification from Orc/admins/mods, and a discussion going about a few key issues I will be mentioning. Keep in mind, I am not talking about morals, but rather the legality of the practices.


1: Spawn camping
How far away from the spawn is considered spawn camping? Does following someone from spawn, outside and a bit away from spawn city still considered spawn camping? Also, is the orc statue also considered spawn?
Another thing that could be connected to spawn camping, is the new addition after 1.3 where people respawn at their /home. If you imagine a scenario where you got in their home through an unlocked door, killed the person and saw them respawning right inside/outside their home, would slicing them up twice be considered spawn camping? (if the victim draws first blood after respawn, the answer is obvious.)


2: Using "/pw" and "/home" to find/travel to potential targets.
First off, I see "/home"ing to someones house, and then killing them as highly immoral and have thus far been avoiding this. I can only assume this is frowned upon, and that is _not_ what I'm thinking of.

It is rather the usage of private warps in close vincinity to places likely to have a few people (non zoned cities etc), then set your home to that location to allow your raiding party to gather up, rather than taking the immensely long walk it can potentially be.

Edit: I guess what I'm asking is, should it be allowed to (1) warp to a spot outside a city/home/whatever, and (2) use your /home to get your raiding party to your warp spot. I am for it, since it saves some time but at the same time keeps the element of sneaking through potential defense lines, in on unsuspecting victims.


3: Usage of the /tp donator/mod/admin command in conjunction with pvp, to find targets, or just keep an eye on them.
Surprisingly, two occations spring to mind. Names shall not be mentioned.

Yesterday, after endless ranting from a certain person, we had a mod "/tp" to one of us in our outpost, go outside, set a "/pw" and leave. We then went on to get a good spanking from someone who recently donated an full set of diamond armour, an inventory full of diamonds tools and a stack of diamonds to our pvp cause. We respawned at our "/home"'s, just to find said mod waiting for us. The explanation to our accusations of tp killing, was setting a "/pw", leaving and then returning through the front door.

Today, we had a donator say "Dont worry, they wont be back!", then 2 minutes later suddenly donating a full diamond armour to our cause. He responded to this by "/tp"'ing to us in our secret outpost. This one did oblige with the rules of no tp-killing as well. While killing him ten times was perfectly fine, it did get sort of tedious after that (perhaps due to the fact that he didn't bring any diamonds:()
In the process of (in his own words) harassing us, he prevented us from sneaking up on any new targets. In addition, he saw our secret hideout, which gives him that advantage if he should try to hunt us down in the future.

Where does the line go?


4:Ranting in chat
I do understand why people get angry when you take their stuff, and I fully endorse a little ranting afterwards. However, yesterday saw a real entertainment source in chat. Things like raping assaulters mother and threats about griefing assaulters home spring to mind, but as you should be aware of by now, no names will be mentioned. While I do realize a great deal of the players of this server is young, I do believe there should be some line drawn as to what you can and can't do in chat.


5:Using block towers as point of entry into castles or similar
While browsing through peoples houses when exploring and taking in the sheer amount of beautiful you can find on this server, most of us are likely to have done this. As far as I have gathered, this is ok as long as you dont leave your block tower around, but tear it down afterwards. No harm done, right?
But, in pvp this sees another dimension. Are you allowed to build yourself into someones (locked!) house, assuming you remove it afterwards like you would in a pve situation? Who gets in trouble if you're unable to remove it due to getting killed on sight?
In my opinion, it should be disallowed simply due to the amount of work for admins as possible griefing cases.


6: Using donator tools to get over walls
So, when you donate you get a few perks here and there. The ones I'm curious about are the flying carpet and the other thingy they got that lets them warp around short distance. As assaulters, should donators be allowed to use these tools to get into castles or other defensive positions they usually would not?



That's all I can come up with as of now. Please do discuss in a civilized manner, as rage posts are just belittling.


-Skoglol

tl;dr: read the headlines

I didn't read all this, but it looks good.

Yes it does! I read most of it lol....Good tho I agree with most of it maybe a poll if Orcworm considers...

WTH "looks good"? He's asking stuff...

Anyways, I'm specifically concerned about point 3, and I want names.

As for answering; I'd say following someone out of spawn to be spawn killing, although if you randomly meet someone near spawn and kill him, it isn't. AFAIK; you can't kill people inside their homes, so the /home and /pw to someone's home would be wrong. As for number 4; I only wrote the rules for the forum, since I'm just a member in-game; but AFAIK it's up to mods/admins to enforce the rules, and to decide when something is "too much". If you feel offended, please report it; action will be taken on the subject. Towering to get to a man-built place you couldn't get otherwise is wrong; if there are no stairs/doors, then they clearly don't want you inside; doing anything to the building the builder doesn't want you to would be griefing; that includes entering the building uninvited, specially if the building is actually inaccessible.

Pete is right (like usual) And i read every word of his post and they make sense read it! p.s plz let Admin/Orc Respond

PetePorty wrote:Anyways, I'm specifically concerned about point 3, and I want names.

You wont get them I wont allow victims because of badly (or not at all) written rules on the matter. Plus, it was no big deal as they got nothing, except maybe a sliver of self satisfaction for circumventing rules. They are simply examples


Oh, and in addition to building yourself over walls, donators have flying carpets and some kinda teleport which works up ledges. I'll add that to the list.

PetePorty wrote:WTH "looks good"? He's asking stuff...

Oh I thought it was a guide!

1. I think Spawn Camping is either;
A. Following somebody from the spawn-tower/bridge/city until the outside gate and them attacking them.
B. Waiting at the outside gate until somebody is in the PvP zone.

2. I agree with this and know it probably wasn't aimed at me, but the original reason I put a /pw outside your base was because some Guest was claiming he was going to grief you (and I believe, once he finds where your base is, he will ).

3.I believe it was that bastard YarwoodUK who supposedly /tp'd or /home'd to them.
As I said ingame, this was not true (I record when I PvP and will upload if requested), I walked from Grintendo's city, got inside your castle via the gate, and crouched until I saw one of you, thus attacking.
Who was the other person though?

Killing somebody in their home is allowed by the way

4. I noticed this too, he has been warned, if found doing so again, he'll most likely be banned.

5. We'll wait for Orc's opinion on this, but if I catch anybody doing this then they'll return the items they gained by PvPing the victim, removing the tower they created, and giving a 1000g compensation fee (Plus 500g to me for wasting Mod/MCPD time).

6. No, donators should not be allowed to use these tools during PvP, unless it's pre-arranged and agreed.

YarwoodUK wrote:2. I agree with this and know it probably wasn't aimed at me, but the original reason I put a /pw outside your base was because some Guest was claiming he was going to grief you (and I believe, once he finds where your base is, he will ).

No, it was not aimed at you It was a rethorical question. Edit: On closer inspection, I see that there is in fact no question in there. I will get right on that

Please do elaborate what you're agreeing on

YarwoodUK wrote:3.I believe it was that bastard YarwoodUK who supposedly /tp'd or /home'd to them.
As I said ingame, this was not true (I record when I PvP and will upload if requested), I walked from Grintendo's city, got inside your castle via the gate, and crouched until I saw one of you, thus attacking.
Who was the other person though?

You did however find the home in the first place by teleporting to us (possible grief situation, fair enough), which gives you a large advantage over members I guess the main issue I had was how you got in, little did I know the sign worked for everyone after a /cprivate However, I do recall admitting my mistake in chat.

YarwoodUK wrote:Killing somebody in their home is allowed by the way

No reason it shouldn't If the door is open, it's their own fault.

RE: 6

I agree with YarwoodUK. Donator tools are intended as a convenience to enhance accessibility, not provide an unfair advantage in PvP. Although, as I despise PvP (in theory) and usually do not want to participate, I have in he past used my compass to jump AWAY from someone who decided to come after me. But I've never killed someone using my tools to get the drop on them.

The ONE time I've attacked someone in PvP it was someone attacking our town. Everything else was self defense when I was just a Member before donating.

Wow, I think the answers were covered before I arrived.

Regarding #5: There's nothing really right or wrong about this, on the one hand it could be considered 'grief' but on the other hand if it's simply used to find vulnerable spots in someone's house (For example, if they missed a block which gives you an opening) then I don't see a problem.

Don't worry orc, there are still a few in need of a weighted decision #2 and #3, to be more specific

To be honest I do 't understand what question have wit#3. could you be more specific or clear? From what I read, seems to me he kept coming to you, DID NOT attack you and indeed GIFTED you items, but was in turn killed by you? How was he abusing you? I have a feeling it may just be miscommunication or something you've forgotten to mention? Mods and admin have every right to monitor people on the server. Keeping on top of things is part of their responsibility.

#2: Home points are private by default, so once again, if someone invites you to their home and doesn't un-invite you it's pretty much their fault, however wrong it may seem.

Setting a private warp inside a building / next to someone's house is a dick move, I don't see the point in PvP in that situation if you don't atleast give them a few seconds of preparation.

#3: Donator abilities such as /tp should not be used in conjunction with PvP, no matter what the situation.

Moderators are here to moderate, Admins are here to administrate. If people don't like that then I'm sure there are many 'no-rules' servers they could try. I'm not talking about being constantly watched, but if a staff member teleports to you just to see what you're doing then I don't see anything wrong.

Orc, does that mean I can't jump away if I do not wish to participate?

That's fine, it's not fine if you're doing that to recover health so you can warp back and continue the fight.

Rulyon wrote:To be honest I do 't understand what question have wit#3. could you be more specific or clear? From what I read, seems to me he kept coming to you, DID NOT attack you and indeed GIFTED you items, but was in turn killed by you? How was he abusing you? I have a feeling it may just be miscommunication or something you've forgotten to mention? Mods and admin have every right to monitor people on the server. Keeping on top of things is part of their responsibility.

In this case, "donating" means dying with goodies in his inventory. Also, that was a donator, not a mod or admin. To me it sounds like you didn't even read it, as it seems pretty clear. But since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to bring out the teaspoon

To what extent can donators use their /tp to other players to gather intel for future pvp operations, or keep tabs on you to make it safer for other players, before it is considered abusing their access to the /tp commmand?


And to answer your next post Rul, I wouldn't mind if you /home'd to get away.

I would consider gathering intel for future operations or to relay information to others an abuse, yes. /tp and /tphere is intended for situations such as

"Hey, who has some iron I could buy?" " I do." <poof!> orrrr....

"Can someone help me here? I can't get this redefine circuit to work." <poof!> "Show me your problem."

Thanks for the answers Orc, I believe that covers just about everything


To you others, please continue the discussion if you've got something to add

skoglol wrote:3: Usage of the /tp donator/mod/admin command in conjunction with pvp, to find targets, or just keep an eye on them.Yesterday, after endless ranting from a certain person, we had a mod "/tp" to one of us in our outpost, go outside, set a "/pw" and leave. We then went on to get a good spanking from someone who recently donated an full set of diamond armour, an inventory full of diamonds tools and a stack of diamonds to our pvp cause. We respawned at our "/home"'s, just to find said mod waiting for us. The explanation to our accusations of tp killing, was setting a "/pw", leaving and then returning through the front door.

Today, we had a donator say "Dont worry, they wont be back!", then 2 minutes later suddenly donating a full diamond armour to our cause. He responded to this by "/tp"'ing to us in our secret outpost. This one did oblige with the rules of no tp-killing as well. While killing him ten times was perfectly fine, it did get sort of tedious after that (perhaps due to the fact that he didn't bring any diamonds:()

I do want to point out I read it thoroughly, but you failed to indicate "donated to our cause" was a euphemism my putting quote marks around it. Without doing so it carries the impression you are speaking literally. Nowhere did you say he died and that was what you looted from him, until after you said "later". Perhaps be a little more clear, next time? Remember, in text-based communication like this nobody can get visual clues from body language or auditory clues like tone of voice. Simply typing like you talk doesn't cut it, you have to indicate euphemisms when a literal interpretation is feasible.

That is to say "donated to our cause" would require those marks, whereas "jumped down his throat" (which is an idiom that means to react hostilely to something "he" said) would not.

As to the towering up issue, searching entry into a home in this manner is risky. What if the "vulnerability" you looked for was result of a grief entry, not builder's oversight? Then you'd be accessory to the grief, and at the very least the legitimate owner of the property could potentially lose valuables to an illegitmate kill.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind Next time I will write "unwillingly donated", as that should express the nature of the "donation". (see what I did there?)

Right my views on this:

1: Spawn camping
I do see waiting at someone's /home-point as worse then regular, "waiting outside Spawn City"-spawncamping. If you wait outside Spawn City your victims atleast have the chance to take another route. Waiting in their home does not, so don't do it. If he/she attacks you, well by god you have the right to defend yourself. =)

2: Using "/pw" and "/home" to find/travel to potential targets.
If it's just to teleport your raiding party to the general area of your target, then I don't see the problem. Just make sure that he/she has adequate time and space to see you coming and react. Say at least 75-100 blocks away?

3: Usage of the /tp donator/mod/admin command in conjunction with pvp, to find targets, or just keep an eye on them.
It's a bitch move, but if you don't TP-kill or use it to teleport in to someone's otherwise impregnable home and set a /pw then I don't care.

4:Ranting in chat
Ranting is alright and understandable, but if it goes too far for too long (say 5 minutes?) then a nice /kick might be in order.

5:Using block towers as point of entry into castles or similar
If you don't damage the structure and clean up, I don't see the problem. You are only making yourself a nice fat target for an arrow or being pushed of your tower and fall to your dead.

6: Using donator tools to get over walls
FUCK NO. I WILL ban your ass if you do this. Compass-porting and Magic Carpets are CONSTRUCTION tools and should never, ever, never be used in PvP.

Hahahah! I love how everything was dignified and worded well, then #6 was "FUCK NO! I WILL ban your ass!"